The Evil Un God

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  • #13579
    Themel 5436
    Participant

    Hi Ashis, I’m Raúl. My question is focused on the system and the elites that control the world. It is known that this system of powerful mechanical people uses blood and sex rituals to trauma people’s minds, make mental programming, and thus follow a strict hierarchy whether in a lodge, sect, important company or deep state (ultimately politics is an artificial human theater). For example, the majority of the population is already programmed in some way because they have been programmed to believe in linear scientific paradigms, so that they believe that the world is a paradise of good, or that at least humanity is going towards an improvement, when in fact it is the opposite. The elite and the system always invert the important ancestral concepts, create ideological poles to trap those who think differently (for example, the new age, there are infiltrators of lodges; or the Neo vedanta advaita, etc).

    My question is, we can see that the universe is very “sacrificial” (there is always entropy). But then this would be a kind of Matrix? Why does God allow that kind of evil in the world? Is it perhaps God who has created this theater because of its diversity?

    All the best.

    #13580
    Ashish Dalela
    Keymaster

    Whatever we call “good” is some moral principles such as truthfulness, kindness, charity, chastity, etc. And whatever we call “bad” is the violation of these moral principles by cheating, lying, stealing, unkindness, debauchery, etc. In the common narrative about God, “God is good”, meaning that He is truthful, kind, charitable, chaste, etc. And accordingly, in the common narrative, there is God’s opposite called Satan, who encourages cheating, lying, stealing, unkindness, debauchery, etc.

    This common narrative about God upholds righteousness or morality as the highest religious principle, and this narrative creates serious problems about the existence of evil in this world. The simple question is: If God is good, then how can the created world have evil within it? This problem of evil which is sometimes called theodicy exists very prominently in Abrahamic religions.

    In Vedic philosophy, these common narratives about God are rejected. The highest principle is not morality but happiness or pleasure. There is some pleasure obtained by working honestly, leading a chaste life, always telling the truth, being kind to others, etc. However, as almost everyone knows, there is even greater pleasure in immorality. For example, there is some pleasure in a chaste married life, but there is even greater pleasure in extramarital affairs. The problem is only that immoral pleasures are temporary. You can enjoy immorality for some time, and then you will be caught and punished. This creates the paradox that immorality should not exist because it is temporary and God is eternal. How can eternal God create something temporary and contrary to His nature?

    Vedic philosophy rejects this contradiction between morality and immorality. It tells us that the contradiction between good and evil ceases to exist when there is love between the soul and God.

    For example, if there is love between a parent and a child, then the parent will not be unhappy even if the child takes food from the parent’s plate. In fact, when there is love, then two lovers drink from the same bottle, eat from the same plate, share the same house, often share the same clothes, keep money in the same bank account, etc. Under love, the two people don’t keep track of how much each person is drinking or eating. If one person eats more or takes more than their “fair share”, then the other person doesn’t get upset because there is love between them. In fact, the other person has greater pleasure in life when their loved one is demanding and likes to give away whatever will make the other person happy. The more the demand, the greater is the happiness in giving things to the loved one. As a result, the standard moral principles cease to be relevant when the happiness of love becomes the highest principle concerning God, instead of morality as the highest principle.

    Under the moral conception of life, there is a strict separation of identity, because under morality, what is mine is mine, and what is yours is yours. At best, we can have trade, contract, or agreement of “fair exchange”. But under the loving conception of life, this separation of identity is dissolved, because what is mine is yours, and what is yours is mine. Now, there is no trade, no contract, and no agreement of “fair exchange”. Anything can be given and taken because there is pure love.

    This loving relationship sometimes seems to be “immoral” but it is not actually immoral because the moral conception of life is based on a strict separation of identities whereas in love this identity separation is destroyed. Of course, there are still individuals, but because there is love, they are not counting how many beans each person is eating. In fact, they are happier if more than one’s “fair share” of beans are eaten because love increases when there is greater demand and fulfilment.

    All these principles are summarized in Vedic philosophy by saying that God is beyond good and evil, and the pure devotees of God are also beyond good and evil. There is no longer a contract, covenant, trade, or fair exchange between soul and God. Everything that belongs to God belongs to His devotees, and everything that belongs to the devotees belongs to God. So, they increase each other’s happiness by taking more than their fair share and giving away more than the fair share. The moral conception of God, or that “God is good” is thereby considered an inferior idea about God and His devotees. The superior conception of love destroys this conventional idea of good and evil.

    Abrahamic religions are based on the idea of “God is good” and Vedic philosophy is based on the idea that “God is love”. There is a strict separation of identity in Abrahamic religions due to which there is a contract, covenant, trade, or fair exchange between the soul and God. All Abrahamic religions try to describe this contract between soul and God. But all these ideas are rejected in Vedic philosophy because there is a superior conception of love, and morality is not required. The dissolution of strict identity based on the strict notion of me and you are also destroyed, and we call this destruction of identity separation “yoga”, which means the loving union of God and soul. This loving relationship is beyond the ideas of good and evil and is the supreme conception of God.

    When the soul stops loving God, then a moralistic conception of life is created. Under this conception, what is mine is mine and what is yours is yours, and then, there can be a trade, contract, covenant, or fair exchange between two individuals. When the soul further becomes selfish, then even this moral conception is destroyed and immorality is created. Now, what is mine is mine, and what is yours is also mine. Now, people try to steal from others, tell lies to get what they want, take more than they need, and don’t try to give back what the other needs destroying fair exchange.

    Thus, from a perfect state of love of God, initially, a moral conception of life is created, and then an immoral conception of life is created. Most people who don’t know about the perfect state of love of God, only think in terms of the moral and immoral conceptions of life. They call the former “God” and the latter “Satan”. Then they have the problem of trying to explain how good can create evil, which is a problem that can never be resolved in Abrahamic religions. This problem is resolved in Vedic philosophy by stating that God is beyond good and evil, but this state exists only when there is love. When love dies, then a moral life is created. And when morality dies, then evil is created. Thus, from the state of loving devotion to God, emerges morality and then immorality. Even as morality and immorality seem contradictory, they are reconciled in the principle of loving devotion.

    We can summarize these three types of lives in the following simple manner:

    • Non-duality: what is mine is yours, and what is yours is mine
    • Morality: what is mine is mine and what is yours is yours
    • Immorality: what is mine is mine and what is yours is also mine

    Both moral and immoral conceptions of life constitute the so-called “Matrix” in Vedic philosophy. If you do moral actions, then you are rewarded based on the principles of contracts, covenants, fair exchange, trade, etc. This trade is required because everyone doesn’t have everything. So, to get what you don’t have, you have to “sacrifice” something that you have. The result is that after you make the sacrifice, you get something that you did not have previously, but you don’t have what you had previously. So, the moral conception of sacrifice, trade, covenant, contract, or fair exchange creates a society in which everyone is always losing something in order to gain something else.

    Most people don’t like this idea; they ask: Why can’t I have everything, without giving up anything? And this idea then creates immorality. When you act immorally, then the “Matrix” punishes you, by taking away all that you had accumulated by immoral methods. Thus, the “Matrix” is the system of reward and punishment in which even if there is some gain, there is always some loss; if we try to evade the principle of fair exchange, then there is greater loss, punishment, suffering, deprivation.

    There are hence heavens and hells inside this Matrix. Heaven is called Svarga and hell is called Naraka, in Vedic philosophy. There are many such grades of heavens and hells, each affording a different kind of happiness or suffering, depending on the type and extent of morality or immorality one has led in their previous lives. The study of all these varied places in the universe is Vedic cosmology. But they are all within the Matrix, based on the ideas of “God is good” and “Satan is evil”, a moral conception of life based on trade, contract, covenants, fair exchanges, and their immoral opposites, which then create places of greater suffering, deprivation, punishment, etc.

    Suffering is not difficult to create. Basically, you put two evil people together, and they will constantly try to hurt each other. They will constantly try to cheat, deceive, and extort each other. The more powerful person will win temporarily, and the weaker person will lose, for the time being, go back to lick his wounds, and then return back with greater force to destroy the previous winner. So, to create suffering, the Matrix just puts evil people together and watches the ensuing drama. There are places in the universe exclusively reserved for evil people, where such people constantly compete using immoral means. Similarly, happiness is also easy to create. Basically, you put two good people together, and they will try to have fair exchanges and give as much as they take. There is very little competition and envy between such people, and life remains peaceful and happy. There are places in the universe exclusively reserved for such good people, and they are happy.

    Then, there are places in the universe, such as this planet earth, where good and evil people are mixed because everyone has some good and evil within them. Some people are more good, and some are eviler, but everyone has some good and evil within them. The mixture of good and evil people in society is the result of the mixture of good and evil within each person. You are talking about this mixture of good and evil in this world, but you have to also look at the evil within you. If you were pure and perfect, then this world would exist, but you would not be present in this world. You are in this world because there is a mixture of good and evil within you. If you become eviler, then you will be sent to a world that is eviler. If you become more good, you can also go to a better world.

    The opposition between good and evil, morality and immorality, is called duality in Vedic philosophy. When these opposites are reconciled in loving devotion to God, then it is called non-duality. The material world of heaven and hell, happiness and suffering, based on fair exchange or cheating, is the world of duality, and it is produced from non-duality without a conception of morality and immorality as notions of strictly separated identities are dissolved in non-duality.

    If someone behaves morally, then the Matrix will send them into a life of enjoyment, but it is a moral enjoyment of trade, contracts, fair exchanges, and duties. And if someone behaves immorally, by breaking the contracts, fair exchanges, and duties, then the Matrix will send them into a life of suffering. As a result, the soul transmigrates from one life to another, one body to another, one planet to another, and obtains different kinds of lives of enjoyment and suffering.

    In the present world, many people behave immorally presently, and they will be punished in future. Their present positions of power and prestige are due to their previous moral action. When a person obtains a good life due to a previous moral life, they start thinking that they have obtained this power, position, prestige, wealth, etc. due to their skills, hard work, and guile. They don’t know that a good life is obtained by moral action and immorality leads to suffering. So they go on committing immoral deeds, just like a person empties out their bank account in reckless enjoyment, and when the bank account is empty, then he has to return to a hard life of suffering for survival. So, evil persons can also rule the world because they have a bank account of good deeds, so long as the account is not empty. When it is empty, then they return to a life of greater suffering.

    So, the material world is a cycle of morality and immorality, enjoyment and suffering, life and death. And the transcendent world is ever-increasing happiness based on the love of God, and it is beyond good and evil, and hence beyond the cycle of morality and immorality, life and death. Hence, Vedic philosophy recommends that morality is better than immorality but non-duality of moral-immoral is even better than morality. This eternal life lived in a loving relationship with God is beyond the Matrix of good and bad deeds and their results and attaining it is the supreme goal of life.

    #13586
    Themel 5436
    Participant

    Thanks for the answers, although I see several problems that we can understand.

    The first is, how to prove the existence of these universes within the matrix, how to access them in this waking life, with astral travel? Where do these people who make these trips go?

    Another question is why God creates this Matrix of contracts, if he is Eternal and Dark (dark because even he is beyond light, as a metaphor). Once knowing that God in principle does not want us to suffer in this matrix, we can argue that the matrix is ​​”designed” in case we freely choose a world without God, that is, God would let us choose between worlds … ¿¿ But why does he create us imperfect, when he can create us perfect and let us enjoy eternally with him? We can answer that he needs to express himself in each of the finite souls to experience duality because the perfect Being He has to express himself as all the finite forms there are.

    This matrix is ​​a good way to define the material system, but I think the question goes further, since these power groups seem to handle ancestral knowledge (astrology, they release their products at specific times, meetings on specific days, etc …) . The issue is that if they do rituals (of any kind, even a social movement of controlled dissent, or invent news that someone has died when they have killed him …) it is because they want to get something in return. What I mean is that the matrix is ​​already made in a way in which evil (on earth) is going to win out because the system has fed on our work, worldviews have been imposed on us and they have fed like that from us, so they get energy. Nature is already entropic in itself, a lion draws energy by killing a gazelle, these people draw power and energy, fooling us, for example, with the myth of democracy and progress and taking advantage of our energy … It seems that evil from by if it is in the center of the system and good is a useful facade of evil, don’t you think?

    Afterwards, I think they are smart enough to want to break the law of karma: if they already expose their plans to the public (covers of The Economists, etc …), then they would be giving choice to the population but it is -blind – I would not see anything and then legally I would not be cheating … We can say that this is really a hoax, because exposing something in public to create a hoax and that they do not see the obvious (the obvious is invisible to the eyes, really they already they have known for decades and put it to the test, they are spiritual principles that they use for evil), and this would be fully a deception, it would affect karma.

    Still, I find it difficult to visualize universes of kind people and universes of bad people, too dual and idealistic, but it can be. What I see is that these elites use spiritual principles for control and that all of today’s society is a theater that they take advantage of, it is like they play God creating a theater but taking advantage of what is generated by this theater, in fact I believe that

    #13587
    Ashish Dalela
    Keymaster

    You have questions, but the answers are not trivial or small. If you are serious about it, you have to read some books. It requires systematic and detailed study, not questions and answers.

    The first is, how to prove the existence of these universes within the matrix,

    This requires a different understanding of space and time, not the one prevalent in modern science. The space and time of modern science are physical geometrical dimensions, and we cannot understand our sense perception or mind in this type of space. You can read the book Mystic Universe. It discusses the theory of the universe that has many different kinds of places.

    How to access them in this waking life, with astral travel?

    You cannot access them in this waking life. During waking, you cannot even see the other person’s mind, who might be standing right in front of you. So the current waking state is impoverished. One needs to develop their perceptual capacity to understand, then perceive other realms. Travel to other planets also requires the requisite karma to go there. As I explained in the previous answer, you go to a place where you are suited for. If you become a good person, then you will go to a good place. If you are a bad person, then you will go to a bad place. Just like you enter a good school by passing an examination, similarly, you have to pass the qualification test before you enter a new kind of place.

    Another question is why God creates this Matrix of contracts

    Because the soul wants it. Those souls who don’t have the tendency to love selflessly, either enter into a contractual relationship or become exploiters. Those who have exploited others are put into contact with exploiters in the next life. Then the exploited people complain, just like you are complaining. But they don’t look within and don’t see the problems in themselves. They just complain and see the problem in others. By that process, they never get out of the problem.

    But why does he create us imperfect, when he can create us perfect and let us enjoy eternally with him?

    You cannot blame the maker of a knife for someone killing using that knife. The knife is meant to be used to cut vegetables, but it can be used to hurt other people. The ability for cutting vegetables is also the ability for hurting other people. If you take out the ability to hurt other people, then you also take out the ability to cut vegetables. So, then it will become totally useless, as it cannot do anything. We have to understand that nothing is bad in itself; it is how you use it. God has given you hands and legs so that you can do good things with them. But you can misuse it. Now you say: Why did God make me imperfect? That means He should cut off your hands and legs so that you cannot do any bad deeds? That will also deprive you of the power of doing good. Would that be perfect?

    What I mean is that the matrix is ​​already made in a way in which evil (on earth) is going to win out because the system has fed on our work, worldviews have been imposed on us and they have fed like that from us, so they get energy.

    Nothing is imposed on you; you can reject it. Many of us have rejected the materialistic worldview, and you can do it too. You have a choice. Just like you can say: Oh, diseases are all around us, and we get sick, then doctors take our money and give us medicines that make us dependent, and then the medicines make us sicker. You can complain like this, and it may also be true. But this is not intelligence. An intelligent person asks: How can I lead a healthy life? You have the choice to lead a healthy life of good diet and exercise, so that you never have to go to the doctor, and then you don’t have to eat the medicines, become dependent on them, etc. Then, the medical system effectively doesn’t exist for you. But the lazy guy doesn’t do that. He leads an unhealthy life, then goes to the doctor, and becomes dependent on medicines, and then complains about the medical system. This complaint is not a sign of intelligence, because the intelligent person will say: I should lead a healthy life so that I don’t have to go to the doctor. In the same way, you reject the materialistic life and lead a spiritual life. Then you will be healthy, and then nothing will be forced upon you.

    Nature is already entropic in itself,

    Nature is not entropic. Nature has perfect order. Even if someone creates disorder, nature will destroy them, and then the order will be restored. For example, before the CoVID pandemic, people were complaining about city pollution, and now, all that pollution is gone. There is a coal shortage, less burning of fuel, etc. So, nature is not entropic. Nature can create order whenever needed. Likewise, nature can also destroy all so-called civilizational progress in one second. Just one big earthquake, one volcanic eruption, one pandemic, one massive flood, and everything will be over. So, nature can create order, and destroy order. Since both are possible, it is not entropic.

    fooling us, for example, with the myth of democracy and progress and taking advantage of our energy …

    Fools are fooled. Intelligent people are not fooled. If you say that they are fooling you, it means you are accepting that you are a fool. By implication, they are the more intelligent people. Isn’t it? If you become intelligent, then they cannot fool you. But if you spend your life complaining about being fooled, then, again and again, you will be accepting that you are a fool and they are intelligent.

    good is a useful facade of evil, don’t you think?

    In Western society and most modern life, good is a useful facade of evil. There is actually no good, but they pretend that it is good. And most people accept it because they don’t know what good really is. That’s why we give you books to read. You study these books and understand what real good is. Then you will become intelligent, and nobody can fool you. And then you will realize that you are born in a society of cheaters and cheated because of your past misdeeds. That means you have to focus on correcting yourself, rather than finding faults in others. When you become the perfect person, then you will be automatically liberated from the society of cheaters and cheated.

    #13607
    Themel 5436
    Participant

    Thank you very much for your words, they are actually wise words. You are right, it requires a detailed study that I will have to have right now and later. I still have your book pending, but I will like to read it with pleasure.

    It is reality that one needs to develop their capabilities. This is the case of the astral plane and as you say, your karma. If many people feel bad, they go to the lower astral and create egregores (mental creations) that can torment us.

    With what you have told me about souls, we can state something very important: really, complaining is within the system of evil. The same constant complaint emboldens you in all the evil!

    But why does God need to create a soul then? Does he need a finite mirror?

    It’s like what you tell me about the knife, what plays here is the way you do it and the free will you have within the Lord’s game.

    The subject of anentropic nature has surprised me … and I did not realize it. For so long, professors and scientists saying that nature exists is entropic, it is an example that they want to impose a paradigm, because if we believe in what is imposed on us, we co-create that reality or paradigm and we become blind. But then (I am a student of organic chemistry), why is the entropy of chemical systems and the thermodynamic process calculated?

    About COVID, my opinion is that I honestly find it difficult to believe in the existence of a virus like this, so it seems to me everything like a great orchestra that serves as an excuse to accelerate the virtual and false society, accelerate control through virtual technology, virtualize everything. It’s like an investment: they want to make matter spiritual when they don’t.

    Nature would not be so “exact”, it is not subject to absolute laws … but it is simply like a person (I think you handle these theories), it is something more “usual” than “subject to laws”, more organic. There is a myth out there called the Gaia myth, which says that the goddess Sophia fell from the pleroma of gods and became earth. This is in the Gnostic texts found in the Dead Sea and in Christian libraries.

    It is true, to free ourselves you have to think more and complain less.

    #13611
    Ashish Dalela
    Keymaster

    But why does God need to create a soul then? Does he need a finite mirror?

    The soul is a part of God; this means that the soul has the same potentialities as God but in a small proportion. Just as God has the power of knowledge, similarly, the soul has the power of knowledge. Just as God has beauty, similarly, the soul has beauty. Like God is powerful, likewise, the soul also has power. But the knowledge, beauty, and power of the soul are small as compared to God.

    So, why does the whole expand into parts? The answer is enjoyment. It is not to show off His knowledge, or power, or wealth, or fame, or beauty. God has everything, but He still wants to enjoy. So, God expands into His parts, with partial abilities of God, to enjoy. This enjoyment is attained via different kinds of relationships. Some souls have a father-like relationship to God, others have a mother-like relationship; some a friend-like, some are lover-like, and some are servant-like.

    God can do everything Himself, but doing it Himself is not very pleasing. For example, you can cook for yourself, but you like it more when someone cooks for you. You can play by yourself, but you like it more when there is someone to play with. You can dance by yourself, but you like it more when there is someone to dance with. In the same way, God can do everything Himself. But He enjoys more if there is someone to cook for Him, play with Him, dance with Him. And those cooks, players, and dancers have the partial capacities of God. For example, they can be expert cooks, expert players, expert dancers, but they are not experts in everything; God is an expert in everything. So, by expanding into His parts, God expects the soul to cook for Him, play with Him, dance with Him.

    The pleasure of God is the purpose of the soul. But the soul forgets God’s pleasure and starts to desire His own pleasure. In short, the soul thinks: Why should I cook for God? Why shouldn’t someone else cook for me? This envious mentality is the cause of the fall of the soul in the material world, where everyone is envious to different extents and in different ways. Everyone in this world wants to be a “boss” or “master”, which means they want someone else to do something for them, but they don’t want to do it for others. However, the irony is that everyone is forced to serve someone; nobody is totally independent; they are all dependent on someone else. So, even as they hope that other people will serve them, that hope is dashed because instead of serving, others cheat them. Or even as they serve them, they always extract something in return. As a result, the soul is never satisfied emotionally, because there is no love between the people in this world. At best, it is like a business transaction, that is given the facade of love. So, the soul’s attempt to be loved and served by others is frustrated and that entails that the soul is never happy in this world.

    But then (I am a student of organic chemistry), why is the entropy of chemical systems and the thermodynamic process calculated?

    Entropy means all the possible states of a system. When the possible states increase, then the entropy is said to increase. When the possible states decrease, then entropy decreases. For example, if you have $1, then you can buy some things with it. But if you have $10, then you can buy all the things that you could have bought with $1, and other things that you can buy with $2, $3, $5, etc. So, the possibility is increasing by adding money to your wallet. This is one type of entropy increase. However, now consider the possibility that your $10 is divided into 50 currencies. Even though you have $10, you cannot get anything even worth $1 because you must pay the seller in a specific currency. Thereby, your $10 is effectively less than $1. This is another kind of entropy. Now, consider the possibility that when money is added to your wallet, it is automatically divided into many currencies, such that the money is getting more and more useless. Or, the money may be divided into 3 currencies instead of 50 currencies, which means it is more useful, but not proportional to the amount of money added. Depending on how much money is added, and then how much it is divided into different currencies, many different outcomes are possible.

    The same principle applies to energy. When you add energy, the total energy increases. However, that energy is also divided into many “types”, which are just like currencies. As a result, you cannot use that energy to do the specific type of work you want. Hence, the “available” energy reduces, and that reduction is called “entropy increase”. Nature has a mechanism by which it makes energy available to you, or not available to you. In simple terms, you work to earn $10, and nature gives you $10 in 3 currencies, so effectively you cannot use it. Your hard work is thereby wasted.

    But factually, that energy is not gone; nature also knows how to convert that $10 in three currencies into $10 into a single currency. Then suddenly the available energy increases. In the same way, energy can be transformed from one type to another. Some type is “useful” for you, and some type is “useless” for you. To do these type-conversions, one has to study energy as qualities, not merely quantities. Based on that there is a science by which available energy can increase or decrease. Modern scientists don’t know how to convert energy from one type to another without any loss. So, they work hard and try to convert heat energy to motion energy, and they give $10 worth of heat, and nature gives back $8 worth of motion energy. The rest is said to be “lost”, but it is not lost. It can be recovered if we know the science of changing one type of thing into another.

    This type-change is also a science, but a different kind of science. Just like you can change your mind, and habits, and then the destructive use of energy can be transformed into a constructive use in the future. The science of energy change involving types is just like the change in the mind. If we understand nature as qualities, then we can overcome such kinds of problems.

    Karma is just like money. If you have good karma, then you can get a good life in many ways; depending on your desire, you can spend your good karma to buy a big car, or a smaller car and a smaller house, or an even smaller car, an even smaller house, and some clothes. So, the same karma can be divided in many ways. Hence, what you experience in life is a combination of karma and guna. These guna are our desires. Thereby, nature is not deterministic; we can choose how to use nature, perceive nature, and it adapts according to our perceptual tendencies and desires. And if karma is not there, then you can do whatever you like, but you will not get what you want.

    Modern science doesn’t know all these things. They have created a false dogma that nature is “objective” so there must be only one way to know nature; nature cannot be adapted by our choice or desire. And under the false dogma of objectivity, they ignore the nature of the mind and even fail to understand matter completely. But they tell everyone boldly that we are progressing.

    About COVID, my opinion is that I honestly find it difficult to believe in the existence of a virus like this, so it seems to me everything like a great orchestra that serves as an excuse to accelerate the virtual and false society, accelerate control through virtual technology, virtualize everything. It’s like an investment: they want to make matter spiritual when they don’t.

    You can speculate endlessly about what it “means”, but here’s the summary: Nature wants us to give up our envious and independent mentality and return to a loving relationship with God. Nature is not without purpose; She has a purpose to make you a devotee of God. Just like a loving mother sometimes punishes the child when the child is misbehaving, and then rewards the child when its behavior improves, similarly, Nature does many things to correct our ideas, desires, behaviors. We cannot fathom Nature’s actions perfectly unless we understand this basic principle of a loving mother trying to correct the deviant child through a system of carrots and sticks. And once we understand this principle, then there is no need to interpret, analyze, and speculate about worldly events. We have to just understand that whatever is happening, it is meant to make us devotees of God. So, if we become devotees of God, then all these things will not be important.

    You seem to be deeply invested in conspiracy theories, and there are infinite such theories. As you enter such conspiratorial thinking, your mind is destroyed and gets incapable of thinking about truth, good, and right. You always think about evil, cheating, hypocrisy, falsehood, etc. Whatever the reality may be, you will always have a certain negative interpretation of it. I’m not an expert in such theories, nor am I interested in whether they are true or not. I’m only interested in the conclusion, which is that if you become a devotee of God, then nobody can do anything to you, and you can get out of this mess of deception and falsehood.

    #13614
    Themel 5436
    Participant

    Thank you for your words and forgive me for being late.

    There is something that doesn’t quite convince me … when you say that “God can do everything Himself. But He enjoys more if there is someone who cooks for Him, plays with Him, dances with Him.” Wouldn’t you be limiting God to a mindset of human tastes? Does a being as infinite and transcendent as God needs to be danced? It sounds very small to me, but I don’t know if what you wanted to tell me is an example or not.

    I’m studying conspiracy theories, but rigorously. Before all this, I had to read a lot of anthropology, understand the rituals that were done in ancient people and all that kind of thing. My conclusion is that the human system (Ego) and the matrix work by the karma system (as you expose), but mostly evil wins because good is a facade of evil and its tool (in this Yuga). Degeneration is intrinsic in human beings and in their cultures, that is why we must free ourselves and go with God to dance. Everything naturally tends to fall into a spiral of chaos as we are falling today, where the seismic creates order out of chaos, creates fictitious crisis, in short, everything becomes more fictitious, more virtual … It is natural in the Ego and In the Human, the substance of this is sacrifice and it is in all cultures, and as souls we can free ourselves from this, but first we must understand how all this works. In Kashmiri Shivaism a series of hierarchies is listed as you propose until reaching the Ego; the sages first studied this matrix and then freed themselves … It is a matter of the souls to return there or dance, stay in the chair or move.

    Don’t you believe?

    #13615
    Ashish Dalela
    Keymaster

    Wouldn’t you be limiting God to a mindset of human tastes? Does a being as infinite and transcendent as God needs to be danced? It sounds very small to me, but I don’t know if what you wanted to tell me is an example or not.

    On the other hand, if God did not dance, how will you explain the origin of our dancing? Everything that exists in this world has an origin in God. I have explained earlier how what you call “evil” also originates in God just like “good”, and it becomes evil when it is separated from good.

    There are many classes of dance. There are jungle dances, dances of lust and anger, and then there are dances of love. Dance has a vocabulary, that is as versatile as music, poetry, or prose. So, if God can speak, then why should He not dance? Both are symbolic expressions of inner thoughts and feelings, and when the thoughts and emotions are very complex, then dance is used to express them. It seems small perhaps because you are not aware of the extensive vocabulary of dance. If you have seen Indian dances, then every posture, hand and leg form, finger shape, eyebrow movement, twitch on the face, etc. is used in a dance. You are perhaps talking from a Western perspective where dance is underdeveloped as a vocabulary. So it seems that dancing must be a small thing. Dance is richer than language. Like you speak philosophy in language, God lives that philosophy in dance.

    Degeneration is intrinsic in human beings and in their cultures, that is why we must free ourselves and go with God to dance.

    If you study degenerated cultures then you will conclude that degeneration is a natural thing. I don’t think in that way. There may be a million degenerated people, but there are many perfect personalities too. What you focus upon seems bigger, and you become of the same nature. So, if you focus on degeneration, then it seems big to you, and slowly you become degenerated. This is the effect of association that whatever you associate with, will slowly become your nature.

    History is written in the West as the story of facts and figures. In Vedic texts, we don’t care about such history, because it repeats itself. There is no value in studying ordinary people. We are only interested in the stories of great personalities, great events, and great speeches. Bhagavad-Gita for example is a great speech, delivered by Lord Krishna on the battlefield of Kurukshetra. When you associate with greatness, study that greatness, then you will also slowly become great.

    If people associate with degeneration, then gradually the whole society becomes degenerated. Their degeneration is the result of two things. First, they do not have great personalities among them. Second, if such personalities existed, they were either ignored or rejected. The degeneration begins by neglecting or ignoring the great personalities, and focusing on degenerated people.

    Thus, the example of a crow and a swan is given. A crow searches for rotten stuff in a pile of garbage; even if there is milk, a crow prefers the rotten and dead material. A swan on the other hand has the capacity to extract milk from a mixture of milk and water, and the swan takes the milk and leaves behind the water. So, crows find degenerated material, and swans find sweet and pure things.

    Everything naturally tends to fall into a spiral of chaos as we are falling today, where the seismic creates order out of chaos, creates fictitious crisis, in short, everything becomes more fictitious, more virtual …

    If you are so convinced about your conclusion about chaos, then why are you talking to me? Like I have explained to you three times, if you associate with evil, then you will become evil. You will only see evil, and you will only speak of evil. You may criticize evil, but you will be no better. Your thinking is conditioned by a strange paradox in which at one end you say that evil people are cheating us, and then you say that this is the inevitable conclusion of all societies. So, you either blame someone else for their bad choices or accept such things as an inevitable destiny.

    This type of thinking is called tamo-guna in Vedic philosophy, or the mode of ignorance. Under tamo-guna, one looks at the world cynically. In Western philosophy, this is called the “critical attitude”, which means don’t trust anybody, always remain suspicious, and question everything cynically. Even if there is some happiness, under tamo-guna, it is the happiness of sarcasm, satire, irony, mockery. And under tamo-guna, there is laziness to make an improvement. If we push a lazy person to make a change, he comes up with an intellectual rationalization of fatalism–“What is happening is inevitable, so nothing can be done about it; what is the point of even trying?”

    Such a person initially hates the surrounding, but because he is too lazy to change himself, slowly he rationalizes the surroundings as something inevitable, then embraces it as his own nature, and becomes what he hated earlier. I can see a distinctive streak of tamo-guna in your thinking. You started by saying that there is all this evil in the world, and now you are rationalizing it as being inevitable. This is a sign of laziness to make a change in your own life and addiction to the thing that you dislike. Laziness slowly leads to rationalization of the evil, and finally its emulation.

    and as souls we can free ourselves from this, but first we must understand how all this works

    You cannot understand how this works from within it. You can understand it when you are outside of it. You accept that we have to become free of these things, but you are also addicted to them. So, you don’t want to make a change. You want to push the change to something in the future. This is the result of laziness and inertia. You want others to change, but you don’t want to change yourself. So, you come up with a rationalization: “I want to leave this behind, but first I must understand it”.

    You can apply this logic to other things. For example, a drug user can say: “I want to quit drugs, but first I must understand how the drugs work”. Then he takes drugs to understand drugs, but he becomes addicted to drugs, and can never quit. Then he rationalizes: Oh, this was inevitable.

    In Kashmiri Shivaism a series of hierarchies is listed as you propose until reaching the Ego; the sages first studied this matrix and then freed themselves …

    Yes, the sages study, but not in the way you imagine. They first go to a spiritual master, surrender to that master, submissively ask questions, request for instructions to be followed, and render the spiritual master service. They quit all their bad habits and try to please the spiritual master by service. Then, by the grace of the spiritual master, knowledge dawns within a person. They don’t just read a book, but try to serve, and emulate the life of the spiritual master in practical terms. By this practice and service, they begin to understand the teachings of the spiritual master. But you are not doing any of this. You buy a book and read it, and you think you are “studying” Kashmir Shaivism. No, you are not. You are licking a jar of jam from the outside and you think: “I’m eating jam”.

    This is one of the problems in the West: You try to intellectualize everything, and never try to change your life. You think that you can understand philosophy by your intelligence because you don’t know that your mind is dirty and a dirty mind can never understand the truth. This has been going on since the time of Socrates, who invented a method of questioning and inquiry by challenging and analyzing different positions. He started by saying that “An unexamined life is not worth living” and before death, he said, “If there is one thing I know for sure, it is that I know nothing”. And for thousands of years, people in the West are following the same thing, hoping that by doing the same thing again and again, the result will be different. This is the stupidity of their method. As Einstein said: “Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result”.

    You have to purify the mind, and you will understand philosophy in proportion to the purification. We call this cheto darpan marjanam, which means clean the mirror of the mind. If your mind is a dirty mirror, then everything reflected in it will also look dirty. You will either find faults, or fail to see things clearly, and then you will come up with your own false interpretation as the truth.

    So, studying philosophy is not rejected, but it is not a method in isolation. The prior method is purifying the mind of its false ideas and attitudes. Generally, we encourage both in unison. That is, you study philosophy, but also practice the purification of your mind simultaneously. If you do both of them together, along with rejecting worldly association, then it is possible to understand everything in one lifetime. If you do these together, but don’t reject the worldly association, then it takes many lifetimes. And if you just study philosophy, the process is infinite and never-ending.

    #13617
    Themel 5436
    Participant

    When I say it is unavoidable, I am not trying to hike or rationalize a bad habit. What you say is real and it happens although I do not think it is my case. When I tell you that I have studied some anthropology it was as a tool, books are travel tools. I go to places, I experience the culture and then as a complement I inform myself with a book. The issue of evil is simply a descriptive part of that reality and when I say that it is inevitable I am not saying: I will continue the same. No, because I have already said that there is an opportunity to get out of it and dance with God. If you are in the system, it is inactivated, but if you leave it is already avoidable. In my country (Spain) I have gone to towns where they do a ritual where they hang a doll in the town hall and insult, stain, burn, like a ritual, this is how the people express their shits and problems, I have lived those parties and they happen over and over again because the person is still trapped in that system and it is inevitable, but if a person has a chance, he will free himself and have a chance to dance with God, it will be inevitable. Although I write about this it does not affect me, I pass on it, I only describe it because it was part of learning. On God, from him comes what we call Good and Evil, exactly, in Islam there is part of this thought where God disposes of good and evil, but he wants you to only dance with him. It is the soul that chooses. Even so I think that he has not answered my question about why God wants a soul to dance for him, I will have to learn this, I still do not understand. By the way, I know about Kashmir Shivaism because I started with a teacher in Spain, Barcelona, ​​I did not read it in a book. That teacher taught me that the best teacher is the one who does not teach you anything, in the end he he he is teaching you things but you are analyzing carefully until the change occurs.

    #13618
    Ashish Dalela
    Keymaster

    why God wants a soul to dance for him, I will have to learn this, I still do not understand

    It is God’s expression of happiness. When you are very happy you dance with joy. Like that God is always happy, so He is always dancing. But He likes to dance with those who are similarly happy.

    That teacher taught me that the best teacher is the one who does not teach you anything, in the end he is teaching you things but you are analyzing carefully until the change occurs

    Yes, there are many such teachers. They adapt their teaching to the audience. They know that people are not very serious, and there is no urgency in them. Life is good in Western countries; there is ample food and sex, there are opportunities to travel the world and see many things. And most people want to do these things, even if they accept some ultimate solution. So, teachers also adapt their message for the person with little seriousness. It may also be that they are not very serious about the whole thing. Or, they want to keep you interested although you are not committed.

    We don’t value such teachers. We value Bhagavad-Gita because it is taught to Arjuna on a battlefield, where cousins, friends, grandfathers, children, and teachers are about to be killed, and they are killed in 18 days. There are urgent questions of life and death, and the supreme knowledge is taught, and accepted, in that urgency. If life is good, and death seems far, then there is a cavalier attitude.

    We also value the Bhagavat-Purana, which is narrated by Sukadeva Goswami to King Parikshit, who is about to die of a snake bite in 7 days. He renounces his kingdom, and goes to the bank of Ganges, and asks the sages: What is the method for a man who has only 7 days left to perfect himself? He sits in one place, without food and water for 7 days, and listens to the Bhagavat-Purana continuously. The philosophy of God’s dance can be understood only by a person of such commitment.

    Whether it is 7 days or 18 days, the point is urgency. When questions of life and death are decided by philosophy, then the teacher must be perfect, and the student who follows that teacher is serious. If the teacher doesn’t teach with the idea of impending death, then he is not serious. And he seeks students who are also not seeking with the urgency and seriousness of a man about to die.

    We also describe the world as an ocean in which a lonely man is swimming for survival, and there are big shark-like fish in the ocean ready to swallow you (they are called timingala). Or a forest fire that has engulfed a traveler and whichever direction you go, it will burn you very quickly (this is called sañsāra-dāvanala). Again, it is a matter of life and death, and therefore, there is urgency. Then we consider a discussion worthy of a teacher’s time. If the student doesn’t have the urgency, then the teachers are also passing time.

    You will likely not understand my viewpoint, because there are many levels of urgency and seriousness. In any case, I suppose all your questions have been answered, so we can stop it.

    #13621
    Themel 5436
    Participant

    That God wants to share that happiness does not explain that souls exist, although it could explain it, I have yet to reflect on it. The teacher I am telling you did not teach the public, he could not.

    I understand your point of view, the world is as it is and you can drown in it, reincarnation is urgent. You have to break free, there is still hope if you know.

    Yes, let’s end this conversation, you will find me here in the forum talking about other topics or questions from his books.

    Hugs, Raúl

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