Holy places in other universes

Forums Vedic Cosmology Holy places in other universes

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  • #11496

    Hare Krishna,
    This question came up while discussion with new person.
    Are Holy places like Sri Jagannath puri and Mayapur will also be present in other universes or one Holi place visible in all universes? And they will have same time cycle (Kaliyuga) running now? And if we have desire and we do practice and develop hankering and qualification, can we see/enter Chaitanya Lila (similar to that happened in 15th century here) that is happening in some universe in Sri Jagannath Puri?

    #11497

    The pastimes of the Lord are happening in one place, but they are projected into different places like a TV transmission. If you have used cable TV, you tune into a channel, and you see some movie or sport going on in some place. That movie or sport is not in 15th century or in India. It is happening in the spiritual world. But it is projected or transmitted to different places. So, if you want to enter Krishna’s pastimes, then you can enter the spiritual world, and participate. Then, wherever that channel of pastimes is projected you will appear in that universe, at that place, and time. It is not that there are many copies of Krishna in different places. It is also not that Krishna has left the spiritual world to come and meet people in the material wrold. God doesn’t leave the spiritual world; and God doesn’t enter the material world. God only “appears” in the material world. That apperance is just like the sports channel appearing on your TV screen.
    When Krishna appears, He comes with His entourage. He never comes alone. So if you enter Krishna’s pastimes, then if that TV channel is projected in 10 places simultaneously, you will appear in 10 places at once. It’s not that you are in 10 places. But you will “appear” in 10 places. This is how Krishna has 16,108 wives and He is with all of them. It is not that there are many copies of Krishna. It is also not that He has divided Himself, so each person gets piece of Krishna. No. They get full Krishna. So, there is a science of how one thing appears in many places.
    This TV transmission can be accessed by a devotee anytime if they become qualified. So, if you become a devotee, then you rightaway enter that pastime in the spiritual world, and then you are simultaneously present in many universes, because factually you are not here; you are in that pastime, which is projected in other places. So, a devotee who is attached to the Lord, can go to all places where the Lord goes. This “going” is not physical entry. It is like a TV projection.
    We have to understand material science to appreciate all these ideas. What you are seeing right now is also a TV projection. You are seeing the material world because of attraction to this world. Based on what you are attracted to, you see that thing. Just like if you attracted to sports, then most of the time you are watching sports. If you are attracted to food, then most of the time you are eating. Like that the devotee who is attracted to Krishna is always seeing Krishna. He is as much there with Krishna as the food is in the hands of the person who is eating it.
    So, short answer is that don’t try to go to another universe to see Krishna. Just desire to see Krishna, and you will enter the spiritual world, and then you will be there in every universe where Krishna is conducting His pastimes. We have to give up ideas of physical movement, and develop ideas about desire and attraction. Then we can understand both matter and spirit.

    #11498

    Thank you very much, that makes it clear. One follow up question- How much of “Spiritual World” is projected into this world when Lord comes down? For example, during Chaitanya Lila, what are the people/places that are projected from Spiritual World and what are the people/places that are part of mundane world somehow seem to interact with the Lila. Just like Hussain Shah inquiring about Sri Krishna Chaitanya from Srila Rupa Goswami (obviously, Hussain Shah is not in Spiritual World and Rupa Goswami is in Spiritual World and they seem to be interacting). Similarly the places that Lord Chaitanya visited seems to be in this world, but some how Spiritual World is projected/interacting with this world? We should of think of things of this world as perfectly spiritual (perfectly conscious in Lord’s service like chintamani dham) all the time because of their association with Lord’s past times at that time(for example most of tract of land of Orissa must be sacred and worth of same admiration as offered to Lord because Lord walked through that?) OR we think all of this world is not related to Spiritual World at all and only Spiritual World is projected at the time of Lord’s past times only? Sorry if I had not made my question very clear. Thank you.

    #11499

    How much of “Spiritual World” is projected into this world when Lord comes down

    It depends on who is seeing. The Lord’s associates see everything. Others, not so much.

    We should of think of things of this world as perfectly spiritual

    The place is holy because it is like a TV screen that aired a good program. Impressions from the past are still present. But they are at a subtle level that we cannot sensually see. But those are not the only impressions. There are other impressions also that lead to materiality. It depends on you. If you focus on the spiritual impressions, you can only see Krishna’s pastimes even today, because that past is in the present. If you want to focus on other things, then it is material.
    Ultimately everything depends on us. It is our desire, our purification, and our vision.

    #11500

    Thank you. Can you please explain how to understand your below statement?
    If you focus on the spiritual impressions, you can only see Krishna’s pastimes even today, *because that past is in the present*

    #12315

    Matter should be understood as “knowledge”. As there are interactions with this matter, the objects interacting with each other “learn”. The material knowledge is generally contradictory; so, as you learn one thing, previous things are contradicted, and one of two things happens. Either the new knowledge is ignored (if the previous knowledge is strong) or the old knowledge is forgotten (if the new knowledge is strong).

    In this life, our body, senses, and mind are constantly learning. And this learning also goes deeper into something called the “chitta”, which holds the impressions even of the past lives. It comprises of things that we have learned in the previous lifetimes. This “learning” prevents the acquisition of new information, if the new information is inconsistent with the old learning. Therefore, it is not easy for everyone to learn new subjects, because they have previously learned things that make it very hard to grasp new ideas.

    This process is true even for spiritual life. It is not easy to learn the knowledge given by scriptures, because our “chitta” is already conditioned by the information gathered in the previous lifetimes. Therefore, the first step in spiritual life is also called cheto darpan marjanam or purifying the chitta. This purification means forgetting whatever we have learned in the previous lifetimes. Once this purification has occurred, then when we read or listen to scriptural knowledge, everything is immediately understood.

    So what we call “matter” is not some dull thing that is devoid of memory. Matter also has memory. And this true of all the places. If there is a place in which a number of crimes have been committed, then that place has the memory, and when we go to that place, that memory interacts with our memory and automatically bad thoughts come into our minds. Likewise, if there is a place where lot of good deeds have been done, then that place has the memory, and when we go to that place, again that memory interacts with our memory and evokes good thoughts.

    So, holy places are recommended for spiritual practices because there are lot of good impressions in that place, and these will automatically create good thoughts in us — provided we also have good impressions. If we don’t have good impressions, then the bad impressions of that place will evoke bad impressions in us. This is because these impressions interacts through the similarity of meanings. If your meanings are similar to the meanings of the place, then that place will evoke those meanings. So, just being in a holy place is not enough, but still being the holy place is recommended to have faster progress in spiritual pursuits.

    #12317

    Thank you, now I understand, why I have different places “evoke” different kind of memories/feelings (not related to current state of the place). So technically, we should be able to perceive Lord’s past times in Holy places right now depending on purification and desire.

    Thank you.

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