Different types of Devtas.

Forums Forums Vedic Philosophy Different types of Devtas.

Viewing 3 posts - 1 through 3 (of 3 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #14511
    Akhil Babu
    Participant

    Hare Krishna Risiraj Prabhu. I have finished reading Mystic Universe, Sankhya and Science, Cosmic theogony and Signs of Life. I have a doubt regarding Devtas. The primary creation happened in the Causal ocean called Tattva Srishti or Prakrutha Srishti. All Indriya abhimani devtas and Yajna abhimani devtas were created there and entered the brahmanda with Chaturmukha Brahma. The secondary creation/Padma Srishti started from Brahma. All Abhimani Devtas(Presiding Dieties) were created again. But later when it comes to Trilokas (i.e Bhu Bhuvar Swar) Brahma first created plants, animals, human beings and  Devas. How these newly created Devas are related to the previous Devtas or are they different? I have read from other sources that the Presiding dieties created at the begininng by Brahma were Ayonijah (Means manasa putras). The Devas created in Lower Triloka are Yonijah (from Kashyapa, Aditi). And devas in higher lokas i.e beyond Swar Loka will remain there for the entire Kalpa and Swar Loka Devtas will change in every Manwantara. Current Manvanthara has 33  main devtas in Swar Loka i.e 12 Adityas, 11 Rudras, 8 Vasus and 2 Ashwins. But a doubt comes because we are invoking these temporary Manvanthara Devtas in Vedas. Are the Vedic names of Rudras, Vasus same as current Manvanthara Devtas? If yes then why eternal Vedas speak about temporary Devta groups?

    #14512
    Ashish Dalela
    Keymaster

    The primary creation happened in the Causal ocean called Tattva Srishti or Prakrutha Srishti. All Indriya abhimani devtas and Yajna abhimani devtas were created there and entered the brahmanda with Chaturmukha Brahma.

    These are not devatas. They are different forms of Lord Shiva, sometimes referred to as Rudras. The causal ocean is called pradhāna, which means “I am the boss”. The soul perceives this pradhāna and identifies with it, kind of like you listen to false praise and you believe in that false praise. That belief in false praise is false ego. The person believes “I am the enjoyer”. The bossiness is for self-interest. The boss wants to be feared and worshipped, to create a false sense of self-importance.

    Then the soul perceives other souls covered with the same false ego, who also want to be feared and worshipped. So, this false ego is limited by the fundamental idea of “rights”. They are false, but we consider them “fundamental”. This is one form of mahattatva (there is another form of mahattattva, which constitutes “duties”). From this sense of “rights” emerge five categories. These are designated as Ether, Air, Fire, Water, and Earth coverings of the souls. For example, the first such “right” is the “right to speech”, “right to information”, “right to education”, etc. Then, the next set of rights is “freedom of movement”, “freedom of assembly”, “freedom of citizenship”, etc. There are literally unlimited such rights. And they are layered upon the previous rights. They are all part of the basic idea that “I am the enjoyer”. And these fictional ideas constitute the coverings of the universe. There are many universes in material creation, and they have different kinds of coverings. That means everyone in that universe is suffering from a different sense of entitlement and egotism.

    Lord Shiva is the representation of this false egotism, beginning with pradhāna. So, there are successive forms of Rudra identified with the successive ideas of “rights” of enjoyment. Together with pradhāna, the 7 coverings of the universe are one set of 8 Rudras. There are many other sets. By context, we know the difference.

    All the creation is within this 7-fold shell of the universe. This means that everyone is covered by lots of entitlements. Even if we stop enjoying the senses, we think we have the right to enjoyment. And as long we think like that, we are bound to the material universe. And these so-called rights keep manifesting through our body, mind, intellect, ego, and moral sense. This is primary creation. It is sometimes summarized as Prakriti, sometimes called guna, sometimes called false ego, etc.

    The secondary creation/Padma Srishti started from Brahma. All Abhimani Devtas(Presiding Dieties) were created again.

    This is because the 24 elements of Sāñkhya, beginning with mahattattva or “moral sense” are produced after the entire repository of “rights” is created. For example, one of the moral ideas is truthfulness. But the material sense of morality is such that we will tell the truth when it does not hurt us. Self-preservation (due to rights) is more important than truth. Otherwise, if we tell the truth, we must get a reward. As long as we get a reward, rather than punishment, we tell the truth.

    Likewise, another moral principle is kindness. But the material sense of morality is such that we will show kindness as long as it doesn’t hurt us. Give charity, if we don’t have to starve after that. Or, even if there is some short-term loss, there must be a long-term gain. Thus, everything in morality is about doing those things that will help others, as long as it doesn’t hurt me. Even if they are hurting us in the short run, they must benefit us in the long run. For example, one must ascend to heavenly planets by charity, sacrifice, kindness, and truthfulness. This is material morality. It is not the pure ideas of truthfulness, kindness, or charity, in itself.

    So, there are presiding deities of all these contaminated ideas of truth, kindness, austerity, etc. Even if we perform some sacrifice, it is only to get a bigger reward in return. Everything is for serving the false ego, increasing the sense of dominance, and proving that we are the enjoyer. This is why these presiding deities are not considered “God”. It is because they are all rooted in the false ego.

    But later when it comes to Trilokas (i.e Bhu Bhuvar Swar) Brahma first created plants, animals, human beings and  Devas. How these newly created Devas are related to the previous Devtas or are they different?

    There are presiding deities of senses, mind, intellect, etc. Then there are presiding deities even of many species. For example, Manu is the presiding deity of humans. Manu gives laws, and by those laws he controls us. Likewise, there are presiding deities of forests, rivers, mountains, etc. Yakshas preside over forests.

    I have read from other sources that the Presiding dieties created at the begininng by Brahma were Ayonijah (Means manasa putras). The Devas created in Lower Triloka are Yonijah (from Kashyapa, Aditi). And devas in higher lokas i.e beyond Swar Loka will remain there for the entire Kalpa and Swar Loka Devtas will change in every Manwantara.

    This is correct in the broad outlines, although I don’t know enough about this subject to certify it. It doesn’t matter whether someone is born through the mind or a body. The fact is that in both cases they have a mind. Those minds, which are a large repository of many kinds of ideas, are different. But it may be correct that later demigods are born like ordinary children of parents. I can’t certify it.

    Current Manvanthara has 33  main devtas in Swar Loka i.e 12 Adityas, 11 Rudras, 8 Vasus and 2 Ashwins. But a doubt comes because we are invoking these temporary Manvanthara Devtas in Vedas. Are the Vedic names of Rudras, Vasus same as current Manvanthara Devtas? If yes then why eternal Vedas speak about temporary Devta groups?

    Devatas are roles, like the prime minister. They rule for some time and then they are replaced by the next person. When the person takes on a role, he is called by the role. For example, you address the person as Mr. Prime Minister, rather than by their actual name. It is not that they don’t have their own name. But for simplicity, they are addressed by their role. For instance, Surya is a position, but the current person in the position is Vivaswān. The same person was a Manu earlier, and that Manavantara was called Vaivaswata Manavantara. So, the person who was Manu in one Manavantara became Surya in the next Manavantara. This is a change of department of a bureaucrat. Demigods are just bureaucrats in the universal government. They can lose their job after some time. Or they can shift from one department to another. It all depends on how well they have done.

    The study of these things is useful in one sense that we can understand there is some “higher power” controlling our body, life, planet, etc. But who controls what doesn’t matter when you die. So, this type of knowledge is given, and yet not equated to the superior knowledge of the soul. Finally, the supreme knowledge is that of the Supreme Person who manifested everything else.

    #14513
    Akhil Babu
    Participant

    Thank you very much. Yes, ultimately it is the conviction about our eternal dependence upon the Supreme Person that can liberate us from the clutches of material existence.

Viewing 3 posts - 1 through 3 (of 3 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.